If I was forced to move literally less than 20 miles away in the course of war to establish a homeland for an oppressed minority I would simply live with it.
It's unfortunate that many, including those educated and in positions of prominence, lack a fuller understanding of what went down in those days of 1947-48. Even more unfortunate is that there's a rich, nuanced tapestry of tragedy and transformation that gets reduced to a simplistic account. There are many more stories and perspectives from that time than many people realize.
I grew up in the US. I never knew about the 850,000 Jews expelled from Arab Muslim lands until I was an adult. I learned about it long after I’d first heard the term “nakba,” which lives a lot larger in American letters. It needs to be part of Jewish education. And if our liberal teachers unions start teaching about the nakba, using Qatari lesson plans, in our K-12 schools, they damn well better be teaching about the Jews expelled in the same era (and murdered by Arabs in the decades before — e.g., Hebron, Safed).
The author says: "It is grief institutionalized as a demand — that the descendants of 1948 refugees, however many generations removed, however many citizenships acquired, return not to a Palestinian state but to Israel itself." !! And how many generations and citizenships removed were all the Jewish people who flooded into Palestine in spite of the disagreement on the part of the native population??? Yes, Britain had the colonialistic power and "right" to arrange the setup, but that doesn't mean it was just to hand over other people's territory to assuage Europe's guilt for centuries of persecution of Jewish people. They created a mess that has only become more of a horror the longer it goes on.
Britain had promised the Palestinians statehood and independence for the help they received fighting the WWII. Also, the league of nations had given Britain Palestine as a mandate. NOT OWNERSHIP or whatever they wanted it to be.
They betrayed too many parties by making promises they knew they would not keep.
They even tried to retreat from handing palestine to the zionist and were met by violence and murder of British troops
Thanks for that additional information. Britain promised many things to many people! An actual timeline of events would be good to see, incident by incident, decision by decision, map changes, legal/illegal moves. It might bring a little clarity to the history, make arguments and false claims harder to maintain.
I'm waiting for those same politicians to advocate for the right of return for all indigenous tribes who were forcefully removed from their lands or betrayed by treaties that were not kept. "Land acknowledgements " don't cut it. Add to that parts of the US that were once Mexico. Not holding my breath.
They actually do something like this in Canada and the Pacific Northwest with “land acknowledgments” and it’s stupid. Imagine if Polish universities and German universities talked about how this property used to be owned by Jews or whatever in every speech. I would hate it, and I lost family in the Holocaust.
The first time I heard this in SF years ago, I wondered if he was going to propose we give the land back , or at least take up a collection to for partial payment , but nothing. I wondered , “so what’s the point in doing this?” It is now done at almost every event , and still no collection taken up.
I’m not sure if any of this belongs in the conversation. These things happened so long ago! It would be much better for Palestinians to adopt the Mizrahi attitude of just moving on than vice versa.
Likewise I cringe when I hear about Jews who still won’t buy a German car. It’s 2026, not 1946. Get a grip. The Holocaust is an important piece of history and we should learn about it, but it’s history.
I’m not much of a fan of historical victim narratives when done by anyone. They suck. Perhaps you can pay reparations but the point is that once you pay the reparations it should be a done deal and we should all move on with our lives.
I mean, this idea that suffering makes you virtuous is really terrible. Suffering is bad and should be avoided. No one wants to see dead kids in Gaza, at least I don’t. Does that mean the war against Hamas is unjustified? Of course not.
But I feel that by talking about historical victimhood, you are playing into the really terrible idea that being the bigger victims means you’re automatically the good guys.
I agree it’s good to flag the asymmetry in how the “Nakba” and how the Jewish exodus from the MENA region are discussed. Historical victim narratives suck but in this case it’s fine to fight fire with fire given how the Palestinians and their supporters talk about it.
I agree. Sadly I don't know if it's realistic — the grief has been institutionalized in ways that make it very hard to move past. I think recognition of both sides' suffering is the best place to start.
Unfortunately, jewish people that were forced to leave arab countries were the victims of the israeli statehood. A reaction to the event itself. Prior I can tel you from my family history jewish people were not discriminated upon in fact many served in the Ottoman empire administrations and even as finance ministers.
I didn’t need to look it up wise guy. Jews have inhabited in this region for over three thousand years, going back before the Roman Empire. Jews are the indigenous inhabitants. Jews are from Judea; Arabs are from Arabia.
The Ottoman Empire lasted 400 years, before rotting away in the early 20th century. They never “welcomed” anyone.
I'm pro-Israel and pro-Jewish. The Ottoman Empire lasted for 600 years from 1299-1922. Of course Jews were living in the area since before the Romans and continued to live there throughout history. But you don't get to make stuff up about the Ottoman Empire -- you can read a book. How do you think Jews bought land from the Ottomans before the collapse of the Ottomans in 1922?
There are only a few great center-left Israeli writers writing about Israel in English. Eli is young and up and coming, about 10 years younger than Haviv Rettig Gur and Nadav Eyal and about 20 years younger than Einat Wilf. I expect we will be hearing much more from him in the coming years. Those are the four people I would most want the New York Times to platform about Israel.
I should upgrade my subscription to @Eli Kowaz. I’m in the US Deep South and non-Jewish. I’m center-left too. I’m unsure if I can vote for Dems in 2028.
NC is a swing state. I don’t want to belong to any movement that Jews don’t feel safe in. I won’t be part of a group that glorifies Hamas.
No Eli, let's not acknowledge Nakba Day. It's a complete fiction.
Also, arguing about this is a waste of energy, a time and soul-suck.
Just reject it.
If I was forced to move literally less than 20 miles away in the course of war to establish a homeland for an oppressed minority I would simply live with it.
It's unfortunate that many, including those educated and in positions of prominence, lack a fuller understanding of what went down in those days of 1947-48. Even more unfortunate is that there's a rich, nuanced tapestry of tragedy and transformation that gets reduced to a simplistic account. There are many more stories and perspectives from that time than many people realize.
I grew up in the US. I never knew about the 850,000 Jews expelled from Arab Muslim lands until I was an adult. I learned about it long after I’d first heard the term “nakba,” which lives a lot larger in American letters. It needs to be part of Jewish education. And if our liberal teachers unions start teaching about the nakba, using Qatari lesson plans, in our K-12 schools, they damn well better be teaching about the Jews expelled in the same era (and murdered by Arabs in the decades before — e.g., Hebron, Safed).
The author says: "It is grief institutionalized as a demand — that the descendants of 1948 refugees, however many generations removed, however many citizenships acquired, return not to a Palestinian state but to Israel itself." !! And how many generations and citizenships removed were all the Jewish people who flooded into Palestine in spite of the disagreement on the part of the native population??? Yes, Britain had the colonialistic power and "right" to arrange the setup, but that doesn't mean it was just to hand over other people's territory to assuage Europe's guilt for centuries of persecution of Jewish people. They created a mess that has only become more of a horror the longer it goes on.
Britain had promised the Palestinians statehood and independence for the help they received fighting the WWII. Also, the league of nations had given Britain Palestine as a mandate. NOT OWNERSHIP or whatever they wanted it to be.
They betrayed too many parties by making promises they knew they would not keep.
They even tried to retreat from handing palestine to the zionist and were met by violence and murder of British troops
Thanks for that additional information. Britain promised many things to many people! An actual timeline of events would be good to see, incident by incident, decision by decision, map changes, legal/illegal moves. It might bring a little clarity to the history, make arguments and false claims harder to maintain.
https://substack.com/@teeashby/note/p-196790465?r=198hxt&utm_medium=ios&utm_source=notes-share-action
I'm waiting for those same politicians to advocate for the right of return for all indigenous tribes who were forcefully removed from their lands or betrayed by treaties that were not kept. "Land acknowledgements " don't cut it. Add to that parts of the US that were once Mexico. Not holding my breath.
They actually do something like this in Canada and the Pacific Northwest with “land acknowledgments” and it’s stupid. Imagine if Polish universities and German universities talked about how this property used to be owned by Jews or whatever in every speech. I would hate it, and I lost family in the Holocaust.
The first time I heard this in SF years ago, I wondered if he was going to propose we give the land back , or at least take up a collection to for partial payment , but nothing. I wondered , “so what’s the point in doing this?” It is now done at almost every event , and still no collection taken up.
I like it when they give the Native Americans tax exemptions so they can run the casinos, that's funny. That certainly helps them.
oy
I’m not sure if any of this belongs in the conversation. These things happened so long ago! It would be much better for Palestinians to adopt the Mizrahi attitude of just moving on than vice versa.
Likewise I cringe when I hear about Jews who still won’t buy a German car. It’s 2026, not 1946. Get a grip. The Holocaust is an important piece of history and we should learn about it, but it’s history.
I’m not much of a fan of historical victim narratives when done by anyone. They suck. Perhaps you can pay reparations but the point is that once you pay the reparations it should be a done deal and we should all move on with our lives.
I mean, this idea that suffering makes you virtuous is really terrible. Suffering is bad and should be avoided. No one wants to see dead kids in Gaza, at least I don’t. Does that mean the war against Hamas is unjustified? Of course not.
But I feel that by talking about historical victimhood, you are playing into the really terrible idea that being the bigger victims means you’re automatically the good guys.
I agree it’s good to flag the asymmetry in how the “Nakba” and how the Jewish exodus from the MENA region are discussed. Historical victim narratives suck but in this case it’s fine to fight fire with fire given how the Palestinians and their supporters talk about it.
I agree. Sadly I don't know if it's realistic — the grief has been institutionalized in ways that make it very hard to move past. I think recognition of both sides' suffering is the best place to start.
Unfortunately, jewish people that were forced to leave arab countries were the victims of the israeli statehood. A reaction to the event itself. Prior I can tel you from my family history jewish people were not discriminated upon in fact many served in the Ottoman empire administrations and even as finance ministers.
The Ottoman Empire was a Muslim Islamic Caliphate. Are you gonna stick with this ridiculous story of yours?
It's actually true. The Ottoman Empire welcomed Sephardic Jews and allowed them a form of self-governance. You can look it up quickly.
I didn’t need to look it up wise guy. Jews have inhabited in this region for over three thousand years, going back before the Roman Empire. Jews are the indigenous inhabitants. Jews are from Judea; Arabs are from Arabia.
The Ottoman Empire lasted 400 years, before rotting away in the early 20th century. They never “welcomed” anyone.
The Ottoman Empire was Turkish, not Arabian by the way.
I'm pro-Israel and pro-Jewish. The Ottoman Empire lasted for 600 years from 1299-1922. Of course Jews were living in the area since before the Romans and continued to live there throughout history. But you don't get to make stuff up about the Ottoman Empire -- you can read a book. How do you think Jews bought land from the Ottomans before the collapse of the Ottomans in 1922?
You’re very levelheaded, Eli. That makes you an excellent leader in difficult situations.
There are only a few great center-left Israeli writers writing about Israel in English. Eli is young and up and coming, about 10 years younger than Haviv Rettig Gur and Nadav Eyal and about 20 years younger than Einat Wilf. I expect we will be hearing much more from him in the coming years. Those are the four people I would most want the New York Times to platform about Israel.
I should upgrade my subscription to @Eli Kowaz. I’m in the US Deep South and non-Jewish. I’m center-left too. I’m unsure if I can vote for Dems in 2028.
NC is a swing state. I don’t want to belong to any movement that Jews don’t feel safe in. I won’t be part of a group that glorifies Hamas.